Return to Stuttgart

About three weeks later (to the best of my knowledge, it was before Christmas 1942), Hans Scholl returned to my office as he had said he would, alone. He told me that he had now made connections to the university in Stuttgart.

In any case, from his additional statements, I concluded that in the meantime Hans Scholl had successfully found like-minded people for his undertaking within the University of Stuttgart. Hans Scholl literally said in passing that he intended to have leaflets distributed at the University of Stuttgart so he could recruit students at that university for his cause.

Since Scholl’s activities appeared dangerous during war-time, I thought about the weal and woe [Note 1] of his family. I warned him against additional activities of that sort. However, I got the impression that my exhortations to Hans Scholl were useless, since I had to realize that he was a fanatic who could not be dissuaded from his ideas.

Nevertheless, Hans Scholl requested that I give him money for his undertaking. Hans Scholl did not name a specific amount. He merely alleged that the [male] students in Munich were not able to finance this matter without outside help. I told Scholl that I was not prepared to donate money for something like that. This negative stance depressed Hans Scholl very much, because he did not remain in my office much longer. After a brief farewell, he left.

Remonstrance: Your statements are not truthful. Wouldn’t you rather say how much money you gave Scholl on this occasion, or rather how much you promised him?

Answer: I did not give Scholl any money on this occasion nor did I promise him any.

After the recent remonstrance that my statements in this regards are not true, but rather the I will tell the truth. …

When Scholl visited me the second time, he asked me whether he could get some money from me. I then gave him RM 500 [$4,000] (paper money). I did not ask for nor did I receive a receipt. I did not directly ask for repayment of this money, nor did Scholl make any representations to that effect. Scholl alleged that he would use the money to take an orientation trip. I therefore assumed that Scholl would not find any resonance for his ideas, because Scholl’s goals seemed to me to be far too fantastic [Note 2] and self-important.

I would like to particularly emphasize that I agreed to give him this money out of the goodness of my heart. I also assumed that when Scholl had spent all the money on his trips, his plans would come to an end. …

For example, Scholl told me during his second visit that he would be traveling to Cologne on the Rhine and Berlin, so he could judge the mood of the people. I therefore must emphatically deny the allegation that Hans Scholl and Alexander Schmorell openly told me about their writing and distributing seditious pamphlets before I gave them money.

With regards to the date and whether the two of them could have been in Stuttgart in December 1942 or whether at least Scholl’s second visit could have been in January 1943, I cannot make any better statements at the moment. In any case, I believe I can recall that it was December 1942 when Scholl and Schmorell visited me together, and that Scholl’s second visit alone could have been in January 1943 or even at the end of December.

After I gave Scholl the amount of RM 500, he left my office. He did not return in the days following.

My office is located in Stuttgart, Tübinger Str. 1, third floor. That is where the transfer of money took place. Scholl and Schmorell did not come to my residence at all during either visit.

My wife knows nothing of the money transfer. Every month till now, I give my wife the usual housekeeping allowance. I do not talk to her any further about this matter [Note 3].  …

I am making these statements with regards to the guilt of my wife not to cover for her, but rather because she truly had no knowledge of the money transfer to Scholl. Incidentally, my wife does not make a habit of coming to the office or poking her nose into my business. That is why it was possible for me to keep the money transfer in the amount of RM 500 from her. …

In summary I would like to say that I gave [them] the money solely out of the goodness of my heart, and that I never assumed that both of them were capable of seditious activity. In addition, I was convinced that Scholl wanted to use the money to take a trip, and that the operation would come to an end following the experiences he would have throughout the Reich.

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Note 1: Wohl und Wehe.

Note 2: Phantastisch, as in fantasy.

Note 3: Unclear from context whether he means the housekeeping allowance or giving Hans Scholl money.

Editor’s note: Grimminger’s statement in response to the Gestapo’s question about the date has confused many scholars. He was right the first time (and probably knew it). When you compare known activities, there’s no ‘space’ in January 1943 for a trip to Stuttgart by Hans Scholl. It is quite likely that Sophie Scholl visited Grimminger in Stuttgart in January, but not Hans. – Additionally, Alexander Schmorell did accompany Hans Scholl on both trips.

Regarding the claimed expansion to a university in Stuttgart: Hans Scholl probably told Eugen Grimminger this, because at the same time he was talking to Grimminger, Sophie Scholl was trying (unsuccessfully) to recruit Susanne Hirzel, also in Stuttgart.

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Source: Initial interrogation of Eugen Grimminger, March 3, 1943

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