Second interrogation of Willi Graf

II A-So.-Schm. [Schmauβ]

Munich, February 19, 1943.


Brought forth, and at night, the single student Wilhelm Graf, born on January 2, 1918 in Kuchenheim, [residing] in Munich, Mandl Str. 1 / Second Floor c/o Berrsche, made the following statements:

In April 1942, I was furloughed from active duty to Munich so I could continue my studies. I would like to become a medical doctor.

In the summer of 1942, I met Hans Scholl in the Student Company when we were stationed with the same unit on the Eastern Front. [Note 1]

In November 1942, we were sent back to Munich together and at the same time to continue our studies here. Recently I also met his sister Sophie Scholl who was studying in Munich. Since then, I have been getting together with Hans Scholl frequently. We have been to pubs together repeatedly, and we have repeatedly visited one another in our respective residences.

Last Friday, I visited him for the last time in his apartment. At this moment, I could not say whether his sister (who lives in the same apartment) was also present. During these visits, we primarily discussed literary matters more than any other topic. As far as I know Hans Scholl, he is among those German men who have dedicated themselves to a German victory. Incidentally, I am shocked that such a question could even be posed during this time of war.

If I am asked what I did when I visited Scholl in his apartment, I can only answer that we were both active in literary pursuits. In so doing, of course we typed things on a typewriter. But this has to do with copies of poems and our own train of thought. Hans Scholl is widely read in such matters.

This was also the reason that I liked to associate with him. In any case, our social contact had nothing to do with political or seditious things. I never ever got the slightest hint that Scholl concerned himself with that kind of thing or with attacks on our Führer.

Of course it is correct to say that we often discussed religious matters. Scholl is Lutheran; I myself am Catholic. Nevertheless, Scholl demonstrated special interest in this faith.  For that reason, we grew very close in that respect. But I must emphasize that Scholl’s religious attitude [Note 2] never grew to the point of animosity towards the Führer.

Of course now and then we – shall we say – grumbled about this or that, the things we experience today. But we never undertook anything that could possibly be construed as a treasonous activity. I liked to visit the Scholl siblings because they were always very hospitable.

A female student named Gisela Schertling hung out with the Scholl siblings as well; she was very quiet. What the two of us did in Hans Scholl’s room, or what we worked on, could easily have been seen by Sophie Scholl and her friend Gisela, because we were not doing anything that could affect us criminally. I also know of a friend named Alexander Schmorell who was with us on the Eastern Front and likewise visited the Scholl siblings often in their apartment.

I do not know of any prosecutable activities nor can I accuse my two friends Scholl and Schmorell of anything. I have told the truth!

[Investigation] closed by: Schmauβ

Signed by: /Signature: Wilhelm Graf/


Note 1: Willi Graf did not meet Hans Scholl on the Russian Front. They had met in mid-June 1942. Willi Graf had participated in a few meetings of the friends before they left for Russia.

Unfortunately, a few lazy White Rose ‘scholars’ have picked up on this and repeated it.

Note 2: Used a Bavarian grammatical construct here: “Scholl seine religiöse Einstellung.” Unclear as to whether W.G. said it this way (he was not Bavarian) or if Schmauβ or the secretary wrote it down that way.


Source: NJ1704 (122 – 123)

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