Hans Scholl fifth interrogation
Secret State Police [Gestapo] – Munich, February 21, 1943
State Police Headquarters Munich
II A / Sond. / Mah. [Special Commission / Mahler]
In a subsequent interrogation, the single male, medical student
Hans Fritz Scholl,
born on September 22, 1918 in Ingersheim, made the following statements:
I am a member of the German Alpine Club, Munich branch, because I am an enthusiastic mountain climber and skier. I have spent a great deal of time in the country house of Professor Eduard Borchers in [Bad] Tölz, Haus Rosswies [Note 1], as well as in the home of Professor Hartert (Chief Public Health Officer) in [Bad] Tölz at Kalvarienberg 1, as well as in Zell near Ruhpolding in the home of (Mrs.) Dr. Probst.
I have primarily frequented the cabins of the Alpine Club as follows: The Bavaria Cabin near Lenggries; the Tutzinger Cabin near Benediktbeuren; the Ehrwalder Alm near Ehrwald; and the Coburg Cabin near Ehrwald. In previous years I went to the mountains alone and met up there with the Borchers children and Hellmuth [sic] Hartert.
This past winter (1942/1943), my sister Sofie Scholl and my girlfriend Gisela Schertling went with me to Ehrwald once. We took the cable car up the Zugspitze.
Pentecost 1942 my sister Inge Scholl and I were in Vorderrieβ [sic] and I think it was a year earlier, I was also in Vorderrieβ with Rose Nägele.
Schmorell and I never went to the mountains together. I know that he often visited our mutual acquaintance Christoph Probst in Zell near Ruhpolding. I do not know whether he made trips to other mountain regions.
In Munich, Schmorell primarily associated with Christl Probst and me. But I do know that he knows some of the Russian immigrants who visit him at his home. I only know them by their first names. I know that one is named Andrej, a girl is named Natja, and there is also a man whose surname is Nalbandoff. The latter resides on Mauerkircher Street, street number unknown. I know this man a little better, because he gave me Russian lessons. I cannot name other acquaintances that Schmorell may have. I cannot make any additional statements about the conduct of these Russian immigrants because I hardly know them. Of course I saw them now and again in Schmorell’s residence, but I hardly ever talked with them.
After being shown a letter from Prof. Karl Muth (residing in Munich-Solln) to me dated October 19, 1942, I will give the following explanation: Muth wrote this letter under the influence of the air raid on Munich. I myself was at the Eastern Front at the time. I could not say to what extent his description about the results of the air raid represents the facts of the matter, because I did not verify his statements. But I am aware that an air raid always looks worse than it actually is. I can therefore well imagine that Professor Muth had no intention of exaggerating. This would be contrary to his entire nature.
Professor Muth is from Worms. He would have gotten his information about the results of the air raids in Cologne, Düsseldorf, Mainz etc. from letters he received from family and friends in that region, as well as from the daily news. I know that Prof. Muth never exaggerates. When he says in his letter that the house of B. is no longer inhabitable, he means the writer Werner Bergengrün.
To the question as to what Professor Muth meant with his statements that the inner life is always growing warmer and deeper, I will make the following statement: By “inner life” one generally understands this to mean the life of the soul, in contrast to the external [life]. Professor Muth is a thoroughly religious character. In his old age, his thoughts are not so much directed at the temporal, but rather at the supernatural. Professor Muth has neither influenced, incited, nor encouraged my activities. He knows absolutely nothing of my activities.
Upon being required to make a statement with regards to the letter written by Sergeant Raimund Sammüller (medic), currently on the Eastern Front, address unknown, I offer the following explanation: Currently, Sammüller is likely under the direct influence of the Polish Baroque. I know that he is personally acquainted with the Austrian Baroque, which he has loved for a very long time. We are both great admirers of this era in art history, which arose out of the spirit of the Counterreformation and perhaps represented the last great cultural unity in Europe. When we juxtapose Rembrandt as a pondering individual up against Rubens in certain aspects, this has a universally accepted basis in art history [Note 2]. Rubens is representative of the catholic insofar as he loves the creation above all else, as it exists and primarily in all its glory and variety. Therefore he is catholic in the literal, but not in the theological, sense, that is, all-embracing.
With regards to the envelope addressed to me, postmarked Bonn April 7, 1942 – on the back side of the envelope the ABCs, and then under that various numbers – this has to do with a stupid and superficial joke, one that has appeared many times in the history of the world. It is well-known that in the apocalypse there is talk of the number 666. Harmless spirits have repeatedly tried to pin this number on various persons. It is well-known that the names of the emperor Nero and various popes have been mentioned in connection with this. Recently, there have been attempts to link this number to Hitler’s name, namely in the following manner: Under each letter of the alphabet, one writes the corresponding number, beginning with A equaling 100. I and J must be listed separately [Note 3], otherwise this does not work. If you then add up the values of all the letters in the word Hitler, you arrive at the sum of 666. I think this is a silly joke and stupid. Some colleague or the other told me about that number game. I have never made any propaganda using it. I also do not know who could have done so.
After being shown the last paragraph in a letter [Note 4] from Traude Lafrenz, now residing in Munich, Steinsdorf Str. 7, c/o Gmeling, I will give the following explanation: I do not know what she meant by F.s. It certainly had nothing to do with an organization or anything like that. Lafrenz is of no consequence at all to me. I did not care in the least what she meant by “stupid people” and “truly smart”. She herself can likely give the best explanation of that matter.
The document “Leaflet of the Resistance Movement in Germany” that I have just been shown, that was duplicated using a typewriter, is undoubtedly a copy of the document of the same name that I disseminated. However, it did not originate with me. I never disseminated documents that were prepared in this manner.
When we returned home from our long trip to Russia, we arrived late at night. We were filthy, full of lice and bugs. I did not know where I should go, so Alexander Schmorell invited me to spend the night at his house and to bathe there. No sooner said than done. On that occasion, I left letters that had been with my dirty laundry at the Schmorell’s house. That is why they were found there. Otherwise, I have nothing to confess.
Recorded by: /Signature: Mahler/
Read and signed by: /Signature: Hans Scholl/
Present: /Signature: Berger/
Note 1: In Upper Bavaria, houses are often known by their names more than by their addresses. Rosswies means Horse Meadow.
Note 2: Grammatical construction of sentence in original document is poor.
Note 3: In the 1940s, upper case I was still written and typed with a J (old linguistics usage), although lower case “i” and j were not the same.
Note 4: Letter not included in file.
Source: ZC13267 (146 – 149)